S6 Ep11 Marius Aleksa on Why Curiosity is Key for Human Performance
We're continuing our conversation on human performance by asking why some performers keep improving under pressure while others hit a ceiling. One of the most powerful answers is curiosity. In this Teamcast, released in partnership with The Emergency Mind Podcast, Dan talks with Marius Aleksa, a performance advisor who has coached elite performers across professional baseball, special operations, medicine, and high-level athletics. Together, they explore how curiosity helps people recognize their strengths, uncover hidden leverage points, and build the kind of solid foundation that supports growth at the edge of their ability.
Transcript
Welcome to the Teamcast.
2
:I'm Dr.
3
:Preston Cline, Director of the
Mission Critical Team Institute.
4
:Here, we discuss all things
mission critical teams.
5
:These are teams of four to 12 people
indigenously trained and educated to
6
:solve rapidly emerging complex adaptive
problem sets where the consequence of
7
:failure is death or catastrophic loss.
8
:With my colleagues and our guests,
we bring you insights from combat
9
:zones to emergency rooms, dedicated to
improving the success, survivability,
10
:and sustainability of these teams.
11
:We grapple with how to prepare for
future events and how to develop
12
:language and frameworks to transfer
critical, often unspoken, knowledge.
13
:Whether you're on a mission-critical
team or not, we aim to bring you
14
:the broadest range of topics and
guests as possible to help prepare
15
:you to perform when it matters most.
16
:Thank you for joining us, and
hope you enjoy the Teamcast.
17
:Dan: Hi, folks.
18
:I'm Dan Dworkis.
19
:Our guest this episode is Marius Alexa.
20
:Now, Marius is a performance advisor
with Performance Advisory Group, where
21
:he helps elite performers find and
leverage their competitive advantage.
22
:He's previously worked with the
Miami Marlins and with Special
23
:Operations soldiers, and m- more
than that, he's somebody who over
24
:the last, I don't know, what has it
been, like two years or something?
25
:Marius: Two years.
26
:Dan: Yeah, that I've just genuinely
enjoyed having a wide-ranging, sometimes
27
:rambling, sometimes focused series of
conversations about what human performance
28
:is and what it means to help somebody
else really reach their full potential.
29
:So Marius, welcome, welcome
to the podcast, man.
30
:I'm happy to have you.
31
:Marius: Thank you, and I'm glad that
we can do this 'cause I've always
32
:enjoyed our conversations, even
when they go into some ramblings.
33
:Dan: Yeah, exactly.
34
:Awesome ramblings.
35
:That's what I should've said.
36
:Exactly.
37
:Marius: Yeah.
38
:Dan: Yeah.
39
:Okay, for folks that don't know you,
can you give a bit of a background
40
:arc of how you got to be where you
are, and what's that arc look like?
41
:How did you get interested in
human performance to begin with?
42
:Marius: I would say it started
with being a collegiate athlete.
43
:Being a college swimmer at University of
Chicago, I was interested in how do I get
44
:the most out of myself and my performance.
45
:And actually, I don't feel like I did
the best job, and I think that planted
46
:a seed for me to pursue performance
in the rest of the things that I did.
47
:I studied psychology partly because I
was interested in my own psy- psychology
48
:and wanted to help my swimming career.
49
:But after that, I took a winding path.
50
:So I did Teach For America for two years.
51
:I was teaching seventh grade science while
also club coaching swimming on the side.
52
:Did the two years, got a master's
in education, and decided that I
53
:wanted to pursue coaching full-time.
54
:I wanted to dive into, pun in- pun not
intended, into the performance realm
55
:full-time and try to help collegiate
swimmers be the best that they could be.
56
:And so I volunteered for a year
at Ohio State University, did
57
:four years at University of Utah.
58
:But through that time, I started to
notice that I was more interested
59
:in the general performance aspect
of swimming than swimming itself.
60
:So that led me down a path
to getting another master's
61
:in performance psychology.
62
:Dan: Hmm.
63
:Marius: And eventually decided
to pursue that full-time.
64
:And so that led me to the military,
where I was down at Fort Polk, Louisiana,
65
:doing resiliency training with soldiers.
66
:Eventually, that led me to
working with special operations
67
:soldiers, helping instructors
and students become Green Berets.
68
:And that led to a time with the
Miami Marlins as their mental skills
69
:coach before now widening out my
path again to work with all elite
70
:performers, whether that's business,
medical, military, or athletics.
71
:Dan: Hmm.
72
:So cool, man.
73
:And okay, so let's go back to
the beginning for a second.
74
:So you were a collegiate swimmer, and a-
as you were doing that, was the mental
75
:aspects of performance, was performance…
76
:So a- actually, maybe we need to
drive a wedge at the beginning here
77
:between the difference of mental
performance and human performance.
78
:And I don't wanna, I don't wanna structure
that or I don't wanna nudge you in any
79
:direction, but when you're using those
terms, do you see them as the same thing?
80
:Are they different things?
81
:Do they-- 'Cause some of the folks
we've talked to in the past have a
82
:wide difference in how they define
those objects or those models.
83
:Marius: Yeah.
84
:I think they're very intertwined, which
is why it can be easy to sometimes
85
:blend the two or mesh the two.
86
:I think that there are differences.
87
:I think that mental performance
impacts human performance quite
88
:a bit, but it is not everything.
89
:And- Sure … I've been around some
brilliant strength and conditioning
90
:coaches, and I see the difference
of high level of instruction and
91
:training when it comes to physiology
and strength and conditioning and
92
:how that impacts human performance.
93
:Mm.
94
:I think mental performance has a
part to play in those things as well.
95
:But without that high level of training
when it comes to the physical side,
96
:then even if you might be the most
mental resilient person ever, you're
97
:gonna be capped at some point because
of your physical- Sure … capabilities.
98
:And that's why I, I think
it's beautifully intertwined.
99
:I think that's why I've always enjoyed
working with high collaboration
100
:teams, high performance teams, 'cause
oftentimes it's really hard to say
101
:where one starts and one stops.
102
:And so it's through working together
with these different realms that you get
103
:the highest levels of human performance.
104
:Dan: And correct me if I'm wrong, but in,
in a lot of teams, those are separated,
105
:maybe even siloed, where you have some
people working on the physical aspect of
106
:the thing you're doing and some people
working on the mental aspect of the
107
:thing you're doing, and then the point of
integration is left up to the player or
108
:the operator or whatever you wanna say.
109
:Is that-- Am I reading that right?
110
:Marius: Yes.
111
:A lot of times it can be that way.
112
:I think I've naturally just gravitated
towards having conversations
113
:with those different silos.
114
:And- Sure … I, I feel like maybe I've
experienced less of that siloing because
115
:of the way that I operate and because my
belief's that it's not just one thing.
116
:It's not gonna come
down to just one thing.
117
:Sure.
118
:I believe that the areas that I've been
responsible for are incredibly important,
119
:but I don't think that it's everything.
120
:And so I take it upon myself
to have these conversations.
121
:And so I don't think you're wrong.
122
:I think it's interesting to hear
you say that because it makes me
123
:reflect on the fact that I've probably
experienced a little less of that
124
:siloing than maybe it actually is.
125
:Dan: Great.
126
:Yeah.
127
:No, I think it makes sense just from
a fundamental level that to perform
128
:at a high level with whatever you're
doing requires a mix of obviously,
129
:like, technical capacity and skill to
do a thing, some sort of baseline level
130
:of performance ability, whether that
we're talking about-- I just came from
131
:a jujitsu class this morning, right?
132
:So I'm thinking about,
okay, what are the…
133
:Like, you need some sort of…
134
:You need strength, you need endurance,
you need, like, flexibility, right?
135
:You need, like, a kinesthetic
sense of yourself.
136
:And then you also need the mental
side of understanding how to
137
:keep yourself calm under pressure
and to do a lot of that work.
138
:And Paul- It's great to hear that there
are teams where you're proactively
139
:integrating those streams of thought
and streams of technique together so
140
:that when you give it to the-- or when
you use that to support the operator
141
:or the athlete or whatever, it's not
entirely on them to integrate it.
142
:Yes.
143
:And you can imagine two teams, right?
144
:One where they, here's your buffet,
but you-- here's the ingredients to
145
:cook a meal, but you have to cook
the meal yourself, versus here we're
146
:gonna show you how to cook a meal.
147
:Now here's a meal.
148
:Now go eat this meal.
149
:And there's just, like, different
ways to put that together.
150
:Marius: Yeah.
151
:I love that analogy because it
makes me think that whether it's
152
:through working with the military or
athletics, I often find it's like,
153
:"Hey, let me see you cook your meal."
154
:Dan: Mm-hmm.
155
:Yeah.
156
:" Marius: Let me see how you cook
your meal right now," and then
157
:based off of what I see- Mm … it's
reflective questions, it's curiosity.
158
:Why did you do it that way?
159
:Have you ever considered
maybe doing it this way?
160
:Like, may- Yeah.
161
:And then y- y- you might get an
answer because they say, "Hey, I tried
162
:cooking it that way, it was nasty."
163
:Right?
164
:Sure.
165
:You're like, "Oh, okay.
166
:So we're definitely not gonna
go down that path, right?"
167
:Dan: Yeah.
168
:Marius: Or maybe if you would've done
steps one, two, and three in this
169
:different order, it would've turned
out differently, but I-- that's why
170
:I really like that analogy because
I find that through my experiences,
171
:what I've been able to do, it's
often seeing them cook that meal-
172
:Dan: Mm-hmm
173
:Marius: and then being able to provide
suggestions, provide support in that
174
:way, that I don't think I would be able
to do if I didn't have that experience,
175
:I didn't-- I wasn't able to observe them
in that natural setting, doing it to the
176
:best of their b- ability at that time.
177
:Dan: I, I think you can tell when
we do podcasts if I'm hungry or not
178
:based on if I use food metaphors,
so we'll see if that-- We'll track
179
:that over time and see what happens.
180
:But, okay, so when you were starting out
in this and you started getting interested
181
:in performance, your own performance,
the people that were around you when
182
:you were swimming at the beginning,
how would they fit into this metaphor?
183
:Would you categorize them as people who
were leaving the integration to you?
184
:Were they helping you cook that meal?
185
:Were they-- What did that look
like, like, when you first started
186
:saying, "Hey, I think my swimming
could get better if I did XYZ"?
187
:Marius: Are you talking about
teammates or coaches and
188
:support staff, things like that?
189
:Dan: I'm gonna say yes to that.
190
:Marius: Okay.
191
:I think that when I was a swimmer,
I-- That's a great question.
192
:I think I took it like they, my
coaches are gonna outline the
193
:steps, and I just have to execute
these steps as best as I can.
194
:It's gonna work out.
195
:And if it doesn't work out, then it's
something on me and, and my execution.
196
:I also fully recognize that being a
Division III swimmer, w- our coaches were
197
:overloaded with the amount of athletes
that they had to coach, and so- Sure
198
:I didn't have the same specialization
and training that I then was able
199
:to do as a Division I coach at Ohio
State and at University of Utah.
200
:And so oftentimes, I was training
much more like a mid-distance swimmer
201
:when I was a sprinter and probably
would have benefited from more
202
:specific, sprint-specific training.
203
:But I, I think that's interesting because
I had that ownership over my performance.
204
:I had that-- I felt responsible for how I
performed, how I executed that training.
205
:Looking back, I think I would have
been very receptive and I could have
206
:benefited from more specificity.
207
:Yeah, I don't-- I-- It's-- That's
a very interesting question.
208
:Dan: I'll tell you why I asked that, it--
which is that I think that we've seen
209
:from multiple folks on the podcast than
just in, in general with work through
210
:The Emergency Mind, that there's a common
thread or common arc of somebody who's
211
:performing well, who gets curious about
how they could personally perform better.
212
:And the first set of questions are
usually some sort of technical thing.
213
:"I wanna get faster at X.
214
:I want to lift more of this.
215
:I wanna shoot better.
216
:I want to last longer in the fire.
217
:I wanna…"
218
:You know, for me, it was, it was
intub-intubating somebody, like putting
219
:a breathing tube in, where I was like,
"Why can't I be better at that thing?"
220
:And it starts with this small nidus
question of, "I wanna get better at this
221
:technical skill," and then it rolls out
from there in terms of how could I get
222
:better in general, and then where do I
look for performance work around this?
223
:And then eventually you get to this
concept of from a more ecological model,
224
:like how do I set the stage for something
to grow in the right direction, right?
225
:Like, how do I set the soil and water it
and provide the nutrients so the thing
226
:grows by itself in the right direction?
227
:And if you approach it from the other
angle, where you take some of the really
228
:elite teams, Olympic-level sport or really
high-functioning business or a lot of
229
:the teams that we've both worked with,
those people are obsessed about systems.
230
:What are the systems that are in place
that make the individual operator,
231
:the individual agent, whatever, most
likely to succeed in this environment?
232
:But that's a very different path
than the human being being like,
233
:"I wanna get better at playing
chess," or whatever it is.
234
:And I'm struck by that.
235
:I don't know what to do with that
sentence because you have the individual
236
:people that are, like, finding their
way through the world, and then
237
:you have the elite systems that are
more focused on systematic support.
238
:Somehow, they sometimes meet in the
middle, which is when I reflect on
239
:the story you're telling me about
your arc, that's what I'm hearing.
240
:You were interested, you got into
it, you studied more things, and
241
:now you look at how to help people
bridge that gap by themselves.
242
:And your theory and your philosophy,
both in what you've said here and
243
:in what you and I have talked about
before, i-i-is some sort of, is some
244
:sort of meso-scale version of that.
245
:I don't even know if I have a question
on that, just that I've been seeing
246
:that arc play itself out before.
247
:Marius: If we go back to
Mario's a collegiate swimmer.
248
:And I've seen this in, more specifically
in some of the athletes I've worked
249
:with in, in my baseball career.
250
:I think of it sometimes as a maturation
of your performance, a maturity that has
251
:to happen in your performance development.
252
:And I think that's what you're
talking about, where when I, I was
253
:that athlete as a 18-year-old kid,
I ju- I just wanted to be faster.
254
:Dan: Yeah.
255
:Marius: And I just wanted to be faster,
so I'm just gonna train hard and do
256
:all the things that ask- are asked
from me, and then, you know, I'm gonna
257
:walk away from practice, and that's it.
258
:But then as I went through my career,
the way that I look back at my four-year
259
:collegiate career is slowly stripping
away fears, excuses, obstacles to when
260
:I was a senior in college and realizing
this is it for my athletic career.
261
:There's no post-graduate options
for me as a collegiate swimmer.
262
:I wasn't fast enough.
263
:I wasn't good enough to do that But
it stripped everything away to saying,
264
:what are all the things that you can
do to maximize your chances of success?
265
:And these examples now might sound
silly at this point in time, but as a
266
:college kid that had 5:30 practice, I'm
like, "Hey, I need eight hours of sleep.
267
:What do I need to do in
order to make that happen?"
268
:Mm-hmm.
269
:And it was Sunday night, go to
bed at 9:30, or Wednesday night
270
:as a college kid, go to bed at
9:30 and get those eight hours.
271
:Dan: Yeah.
272
:Marius: And I remember I started
taking my hydration super seriously.
273
:I had a 32-ounce Gatorade squeeze water
bottle, and I just carried it with me.
274
:And what struck me was I could have
been doing this my whole four years.
275
:But I almost needed that, the staring
in the face of, "Hey, this is going
276
:to end, and you wanna be able to walk
away saying that you did everything
277
:possible to m- to make it happen."
278
:And so that was my maturity- Interesting
… in that performance development.
279
:But I saw it in professional baseball too,
where whether it's holding back, whether
280
:it's just not knowing what that could look
like, th- really have opened up my eyes
281
:to, to the systems, to the environment,
to the process that we are creating.
282
:I think it's why I stress increasing
your probability of success, knowing
283
:that nothing is guaranteed, but knowing
that there's a lot of things that you
284
:can do that are within your control
to put yourself in a better position.
285
:Dan: I-- Man, I love that thought,
that, that realization that I
286
:could have been doing this before.
287
:Why wasn't I?
288
:Right?
289
:What was it that was doing that?
290
:And I think there's a sense That
happens a- in a bunch of these
291
:different fields where you're like,
"This has worked so far, and it cost
292
:me so much energy to get to this point
that I'm not gonna do anything else."
293
:Or maybe I haven't seen from the people
around me anything else other than this.
294
:This is what I'm gonna do.
295
:Versus that concept of-- A-and really
maybe we're talking about explore versus
296
:exploit strategies here, where you're
either gonna continue doing the same
297
:thing you've been doing before or you're
gonna take the energy to go try something
298
:else and see what that feels like.
299
:And, you know, that willingness to do what
is a very hard thing as a college student,
300
:which is to go to bed at nine thirty.
301
:Like, that's not easy, right?
302
:Like, now it's great.
303
:Yeah, no problem.
304
:Yeah.
305
:Going to bed at nine thirty, but
306
:Marius: now I'm looking forward to it.
307
:Not something that I forced
308
:Dan: myself to do.
309
:Yeah, seven AM jujitsu this morning?
310
:No problem.
311
:Let's go.
312
:Yeah.
313
:But it's different.
314
:But the willingness to try a thing
and to really lean into it a-and to do
315
:those first couple steps and then, and
then to make that whole judgment arc
316
:of, "All right, I'm gonna experiment.
317
:I'm gonna try this.
318
:Here's what the outcome's gonna look like.
319
:Did it work?
320
:All right, now I'm gonna go back and try
this next thing," is-- That's a skill that
321
:y-you have to be taught at some point.
322
:And, and I guess I'm poking a lot at the
early part of your career because a-as we
323
:then transition to all the other really
cool things that you've done, I'd imagine
324
:you brought your experience arc on that.
325
:But along the way, you armed yourself
with a lot of other models from
326
:education, from performance psychology.
327
:H-how did that interface look for you as
you're looking back on your own experience
328
:and now you're blending together the
tools of all these other disciplines?
329
:Were there moments along the
way where it seemed to fit?
330
:Were there things that didn't mesh?
331
:Marius: That is a great question
because it makes me think of the
332
:fact that in all the domains that
I've walked into For example, working
333
:with special operations soldiers.
334
:I don't have any military background.
335
:I-- When I first started working with
the military, I had zero concept of
336
:what they went through and, you know,
what they do and all these things.
337
:Same thing with professional baseball.
338
:I walked into a Major League clubhouse
with my baseball experience being
339
:a Little League baseball player
that stopped playing after, like,
340
:eighth grade, and I was not good.
341
:And yet I was able to walk
into these environments, and I
342
:was able to do effective work.
343
:And I sometimes surprised myself in being
able to integrate in these environments
344
:where I'm like, "I don't belong here."
345
:These are elite.
346
:These are the best of the best,
top one percent of performers
347
:that we're talking about.
348
:And when…
349
:If we go back to my experience as
a collegiate swimmer, I think there
350
:was enough there that just made me
really curious about getting better.
351
:The one thing that I didn't want to do
is bleed my own experience onto a special
352
:operations soldier or a Major League
baseball player because I'm like, "I
353
:don't know what your experience is like."
354
:Sure.
355
:I don't-- I can't tell you what it's like
to be in a batter's box facing ninety-six
356
:mile per hour fastballs, if not faster.
357
:But I can ask you questions about this
while being armed with high-performance
358
:principles and recognize some themes
and patterns that might be universal
359
:or certain principles or concepts that
might be a little bit more universal.
360
:And then based off of your answers
and your experience, we can see how
361
:that fits into you and helping you.
362
:I think that early part of my journey
sparked enough curiosity that I then
363
:carried through to those experience
and somehow made it relatable to this
364
:D3 college swimmer could somehow find
relatability or find common ground
365
:to speak to a special operations
soldier or speak to a Major League
366
:baseball player and find that common
ground that then says, "Okay, this
367
:is what the work is gonna look like.
368
:This is where we go from
369
:Dan: here."
370
:Yeah, it-
371
:Curiosity is, like, not necessarily
a word we hear a lot in the
372
:human performance space, right?
373
:There's a lot of broadcasting of do this,
like sleep this much, drink this much
374
:water, all of which is good and important.
375
:But that sense of curiosity, both in terms
of like you described it before, like
376
:how did you learn to perform in this way?
377
:What were the reasons that
you decided to do it this way?
378
:And what are the things that you're
considering doing differently?
379
:And, hey, here's a goal, get
this much sleep or whatever.
380
:Why do you think you haven't
been doing that so far?
381
:I love the way you're asking those
questions and using that curiosity
382
:as a both an aligning tool with this
other person who has a different lived
383
:experience, and then also a wedge into
actual sort of behavioral change, right?
384
:'Cause you're almost getting all
the way back to, like, motivational
385
:interviewing and that kind of
technique in order to get people to
386
:recognize where they could get better.
387
:Marius: Yeah.
388
:I definitely think that there's elements
of motivational interviewing, but I
389
:probably started doing it way before I
knew what motivational interviewing was.
390
:But a, a lot of that is going
back to When I step into working
391
:with Green Berets, I'm like, "Who,
who am I to tell you what to do?
392
:Who am I to prescribe you stuff?"
393
:And that's why I lean on asking questions
because those guys have very good reasons
394
:for why they're doing what they're doing.
395
:Now, they will probably be the first
ones to tell you that there's better
396
:ways to do things, and they're
constantly looking for those better ways.
397
:But I've always found that by examining
where you are and why you're doing
398
:things the way that you're doing, then
we can pull the strengths from that
399
:and see what's, what is working well
with it, what can we lean on, what
400
:can we maybe utilize with what you're
doing well to continue getting better.
401
:But it-- to me, I, I almost cringe
at the idea of coming in and saying,
402
:"You need to do this and this."
403
:And maybe that's just coming from
that mental background- Sure … as
404
:opposed to a more physical background
where it's, "Yes, we know that
405
:you should drink this much water.
406
:You should attack the
exercises in this way."
407
:But for me, it's being interested in,
"Dan, how do you think about this?
408
:What's going through your head in,
of, of attacking it in this way?
409
:What's the perspective that you see?
410
:And let me share maybe some of my
perspective of what I'm seeing, and
411
:can you help me address this gap?
412
:And why are you thinking of it this
way, and I think of it this way.
413
:Like, where's the common ground there?"
414
:Yeah.
415
:And through those discussions and
conversations, it creates this very
416
:organic way of, oh, this, these
are things that we can improve.
417
:It-- I find that it works
well because it's…
418
:They're not my ideas.
419
:Sure.
420
:We're coming up with ideas together
to attack, and there's an inherent
421
:ownership that's baked into the process.
422
:Dan: I'm struck by it…
423
:There was a, another guest on the
podcast a while back, Kevin Cyr from
424
:the SWAT universe, and he, when some-
when one of his juniors would present
425
:a plan to him, like, "Hey, we're gonna
take this house," or, "We're gonna do
426
:this thing," or whatever, he would ask
the question, "Okay, tell me what you
427
:thought of but didn't choose and why."
428
:And that sort of same sort of
mirrored logic to what you're
429
:describing, which is like, "All right.
430
:So you've decided to get ready for
your performance moment in this way.
431
:Can you help me understand w-
what did you dis-- what did
432
:you think about and not do?"
433
:Some version of like,
"Why do you do that?"
434
:"I tie my shoes this way because
when I was in kindergarten,"
435
:blah, blah, blah, blah.
436
:Right?
437
:You're like, "Okay, cool.
438
:Are there other ways to do it?
439
:Are there other things to throw in there?
440
:Where are you getting stuck?"
441
:And man, I just…
442
:I love that, I love that
vector into these things.
443
:Marius: I love that question because of
the respect that it shows your junior.
444
:Dan: Sure.
445
:Marius: So as a…
446
:And this is me speculating, but as
a senior leader, here's an idea.
447
:He might recognize gaps, but he's showing
respect by saying- Like, I'm sure you've
448
:thought through this plan, so talk through
some of these gaps that I'm seeing because
449
:I'm sure you've given it consideration.
450
:And that's a very-- That's…
451
:I think it's very respectful.
452
:It's showing generosity to that
junior, and maybe they didn't
453
:think that through, but that's a…
454
:It's, it almost creates a psychological
safety to then identify some
455
:of these gaps where it's like,
"Hey, I'm not attacking you.
456
:You know, I'm not
shooting down your idea."
457
:Sure.
458
:I'm recog- We have two
people in this room.
459
:We have different perspectives.
460
:We have different experiences.
461
:We're recognizing some gaps, but
before I say, "Hey, that's a gap.
462
:Why didn't you think of that?"
463
:It's, "Talk me through your process.
464
:Talk me through the options
that you didn't take."
465
:And I feel it creates a, a just a
healthier, more productive conversation
466
:where you're avoiding that junior
getting defensive, and you're laying
467
:out those options, and I feel like that
just plants the seeds of a lot more
468
:learning and growth than anything else.
469
:Dan: And that respect and
curiosity is such an i- such a
470
:good way to get into performance.
471
:And I think about e-even this morning
in jujitsu class, I was rolling
472
:with the instructor, and we, he
was going from a butterfly half
473
:guard, and I pinned his foot to the
ground, and he paused for a second.
474
:He goes, "W- Tell me, explain
to me why you did that.
475
:What was your thought process?"
476
:And I looked down and was genuinely
surprised that my hand was down there.
477
:I had no idea it was h-
I was, like, so lost.
478
:I, like, had no idea.
479
:But it was a great, it was a great way
to be like, "Okay, I actually don't know.
480
:I must have had some reason for this.
481
:Now let me, like, think about it next
time I do it again and roll into it."
482
:And I think there's a way to Help
people who are performing at the
483
:edge of their ability, which is
really what we're talking about, help
484
:them become more conscious of the
choices they're making, just like
485
:you in the water and waking up early.
486
:Become more conscious of the dis- of
the choices they're making, but also of
487
:the systems that are supporting those
choices in a way that is respectful
488
:and elevating and helps them figure
out, "Ah, okay, here's a point of
489
:leverage I hadn't thought of before.
490
:I'm gonna go after this, and
that's gonna help me be better."
491
:Marius: I love that.
492
:I-- Because, okay, so for you, what
you said your head was down somewhere?
493
:You were in some compromising position?
494
:My
495
:Dan: hand, yeah, yeah, my hand.
496
:Yeah, okay.
497
:I don't know how I did this, yeah.
498
:Marius: But even if you-- When you say,
"I don't know," or, "I have no idea,"
499
:even if then that makes you think
about how you got into that position,
500
:there's something to learn from that.
501
:And then on the flip side, it
also gives you the option or the
502
:possibility to think through, "Okay,
what would I have done differently?
503
:What would I have done to prevent
myself i- to, to be in that position?"
504
:One of my favorite topics or things to
dig into with Green Berets, with Major
505
:League Baseball players, with elite
performers, is them recognizing the
506
:great things that they're doing that
they might not give enough credit to.
507
:Mm-hmm.
508
:Because when you talk about creating
systems, creating a process, these guys
509
:and girls are where they are for a reason.
510
:They're doing things really well.
511
:But because of the high standards that
they have, because they're constantly
512
:pushing that edge, that limit, oftentimes
they don't give enough credit to the
513
:great things that they're doing, and
sometimes they don't even see it.
514
:It's just, that's just expectation.
515
:And for me, it's never about
handing out gold stars.
516
:It's never about handing out trophies.
517
:But it's about creating these foundations
of things that you're doing well so
518
:that you can lean back on them, that
you can leverage them, that you can
519
:use them to continue pushing yourself
out onto the edge a- and the limit.
520
:And so one of my favorite things is
when I'm having a conversation with
521
:a performer that I'm like, they're
incredible, but they have that moment,
522
:they're like, "Oh yeah, I do that.
523
:I am pretty good at that."
524
:And recognizing that so that
now it's a more specific tool.
525
:Now it's an advantage that they can
intentionally deploy as opposed to just
526
:something that happens, as opposed to
something that they almost luck into.
527
:So now they can be more
consistent with it.
528
:They can be more intentional with it.
529
:And I always find that, I,
I find that so fascinating.
530
:Dan: So we're still on curiosity, and
now we're moving from, like, why-- what
531
:are the choices you're making to what
are the choices you want to be making?
532
:Can you amplify the ones that you love?
533
:Can you find these points of leverage,
and can you redesign, in subtle
534
:ways, your responses to stuff to take
advantage of those moments of leverage?
535
:That's really cool.
536
:Marius: Yeah, and I, I often use
the word foundation because I want
537
:these high performers to continuously
be investing in a solid footing.
538
:And I think that it's a very apt
metaphor because the best of the best
539
:are constantly pushing their limits.
540
:They're going into deep water and, and
by having a solid foundation, having a
541
:solid footing, building a good base for
themselves, that's what allows them to
542
:go into that uncharted territory and know
that, "Hey, I have these systems in place.
543
:I have the tools in place that allow
me to go into uncertain situations,
544
:uncharted territory, all this
stuff, and I know I'm gonna be good.
545
:I know I'm gonna be okay."
546
:And I just-- And okay can be…
547
:It's very relative, right?
548
:It looks very different in, in, in
different domains, but just that concept
549
:of having a firm foundation that you
are well aware of, that you're well
550
:familiar with what gives you that solid
base allows you to continue pushing
551
:those limits in, in, in brilliant ways.
552
:Dan: I wanna share w-- another
question from a prior guest.
553
:Th-this is from Diane Chadwick
Jones, who worked in the oil and gas
554
:industry at a very high level, and
she described the experience of going
555
:to oil rigs and working with these
really big, rough guys, and she'd ask
556
:them, "What are you struggling with?"
557
:And they'd say, "Nothing."
558
:She'd be like, "Okay, what, what
did you use to struggle with?"
559
:"Nothing."
560
:And then finally she'd ask them,
"Somebody that's like you, but
561
:weaker and smaller, what do you
think they would struggle with?"
562
:They'd be like, "Oh, that valve is
really hard to turn over there."
563
:And all of a sudden it just
like completely circumvents and
564
:does some judo on their sort
of sense of ego and everything.
565
:And wh- when you're describing
this, like what are you doing?
566
:The sister question to that in some sense
is, "If you weren't as good at your job,
567
:what do you think you'd find challenging?
568
:What are the hidden areas that, that
you're overcoming that you don't realize
569
:that every day you walk in and you've
got 30 pounds of lead on your bag
570
:for reasons that nobody knows about?
571
:Or there's this thing that's
really hard that doesn't need to
572
:be hard, or there's some way…"
573
:Th- there's like the positive spin
of what are you already doing right
574
:that maybe you're not focused on?
575
:And then there's the other
spin, which is what is our…
576
:how is our system failing you that we're
not aware of because you're just so
577
:good that you're compensating for it?
578
:And if we get curious on both of those
vectors, we end together at this arc
579
:we were talking about at the beginning,
which is like performance comes from
580
:the human becoming curious and better
and the system doing a better job
581
:supporting them at the same time.
582
:And w- when you run both of those things
together, then you get this absolutely
583
:potential for true elite performance.
584
:Marius: Yeah.
585
:I, I think how powerful the
questions can be, right?
586
:And just by framing the questions
in a different way, we can
587
:attack some of those things.
588
:That's a brilliant job by that
guest of breaking it down of, okay,
589
:you might not be struggling, but
where would someone else struggle?
590
:A- and that also makes me think
of when I've talked to people that
591
:are trying to get into the field,
I think of those, I wouldn't even
592
:call them hidden costs, but just the
hidden stuff that, that we don't see.
593
:Mm-hmm.
594
:It, it makes me think of how often
times we fall into the trap of
595
:thinking, "I don't want to struggle.
596
:I shouldn't be struggling.
597
:I need to avoid this
struggle," or whatever it is.
598
:But then when you get into some of
these conversations of strengths,
599
:of solid foundation, you naturally
get a conversation about overcoming
600
:obstacles, overcoming challenges.
601
:They didn't get there because of
natural talent or just natural skill.
602
:It's because they had
to overcome something.
603
:They had to attack something.
604
:They had to work really hard
at something, and then all of a
605
:sudden, they're a Green Beret.
606
:All of a sudden, they're a
Major League baseball player.
607
:But it's because of these
hidden struggles, these hidden
608
:challenges that they overcame,
that got them to that point.
609
:But it's still a trap that we all
deal with, where it's, "Oh, no,
610
:I'm struggling in this moment.
611
:This isn't good.
612
:I need to get out of this."
613
:It's a moment just this helped
you get to this point, right?
614
:And so it can help strip away some
of those expectations or those
615
:connotations that come with that
struggle and allow you to just be
616
:present of, "Okay, what's at my disposal?
617
:How do I wanna attack this?
618
:How can I be present with this?"
619
:Because two steps down the road,
it's gonna be something that you're
620
:thankful for, or it's gonna be something
that you now utilize to, to leverage
621
:yourself into even a stronger position.
622
:Dan: Man, that's so good.
623
:"A moment just this helped
you get to this point."
624
:That is so good.
625
:I, I hate to do this, but
we have to wrap this up.
626
:This has been so fun and so interesting.
627
:I wanna give you a chance on the way
out to issue a challenge to everybody
628
:listening to this, something you want
them to do differently on their next day,
629
:their next shift, anything like that.
630
:And while you're thinking about that,
I'm gonna stall for you slightly by
631
:doing our normal disclaimer, which is
that our job here on the "Emergency
632
:Mind" podcast is to take the best of
what other people and teams have figured
633
:out about performance under pressure.
634
:We don't do anything that's medical
advice, and myself and my guests are
635
:only talking for ourselves, not for
anybody that we work with or for.
636
:All right, so hopefully that's enough time
to, to-- for you to come up with something
637
:brilliant to say at the end here, but
what do you want folks to do differently
638
:after listening to this episode?
639
:Marius: It makes me think of
us talking about strengths.
640
:And so I-- generally, I want
people to pay attention to their
641
:strengths and to utilize them.
642
:But more specifically, I would be very
curious if your listeners, while paying
643
:attention to their strengths and their
competitive advantages and saying, "Hey,
644
:this is something that I'm pretty good
at this Pick one action that you could
645
:do today or in the next couple days to
specifically leverage that strength.
646
:So if it's your ability to connect with
people, then maybe it's s- shooting off
647
:a text, shooting off a call, and reaching
out to someone that you haven't talked to
648
:in a while and recognizing them for their
strengths or something that you're seeing
649
:them do well or something like that.
650
:I can't tell you what that is, but
it's the idea of paying attention to
651
:the strengths, pay attention to the
things that you do well, and create
652
:an intentional, purposeful plan to
leverage that in some specific way.
653
:Dan: I love it.
654
:Marius, thank you so much.
655
:Thank you for coming on the podcast.
656
:Thank you for sharing all the wisdom.
657
:Marius: I appreciate you, Dan.
658
:This was a lot of fun.
659
:I feel like I learned more
than, than anything else.
660
:This is, this is perfect for me.
661
:Dan: That's awesome.
662
:Preston: Thank you again for
listening to our Teamcast.
663
:If you found value in this discussion,
the best way to support our work
664
:and ensure you don't miss future
episodes is to subscribe and
665
:leave us a quick rating or review.
666
:It'll help us reach more people who
need to hear these conversations.
667
:For more on Mission Critical Team
Institute, including all of our episodes
668
:and show notes, visit missioncti.com.
669
:You can also connect with us on LinkedIn.
670
:And if you're a mission critical
team looking to learn more about
671
:our programs, reach out directly
to our Director of Operations, Ms.
672
:Janese Jackson, at janese@missioncti.com.
673
:That's J-A-N-E-S-E@missioncti.com.
674
:Until next time, thanks.
